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| Enraged Oob Power Insight; SSJ 2 Vs Animelover5487 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 13 2013, 07:27 PM (2,999 Views) | |
| SSJ | Jan 13 2013, 07:27 PM Post #1 |
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Note: Only SSJ 2, Animelover5487, The host, and fact checkers may post in this thread I will be arguing: Oob >> Good Buu Oob ~ Base Goku Oob ~< Kid Buu Let the games begin! |
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| SSJ | Jan 13 2013, 09:19 PM Post #2 |
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I will start off with a small point about Good Buu. Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P1.3 Context: after Goten and Boo are matched up in the tournament's first round Goten: “Th-that can’t be! How can I go up against Boo right in the first round?!” Goku: “It’s only a problem because you keep slacking off in your training.” Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P6.5 Goku: “…But someone besides us and Boo might win.” Satan: “Hahhahhah, now really! There’s no way that could happen, right?” This shows us that Good Buu is still well above Goten and Trunks. I believe that the kids have gotten stronger from the Buu saga since Goku states they have been "slacking off". I think this means that they continued training, but could be much stronger. Since i still have SSJ 2 Goku(Buu saga) >> SSJ Goten/Trunks, the kids are still miles away from Good Buu. Since Base Goku ~ Oob >> Good Buu >> SSJ Kids, we can tell that Good Buu is much weaker than Oob. Goku also regards Good Buu as in the same tier as himself and Vegeta, which means that Oob >> Good Buu. Now, to make a point about Goku, this was stated: Goku: Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P1.3 Context: Bulma complains about how Goku never comes to visit Bulma: “5 years! 5 years ago, when everyone was getting together, and even then you said you were training and didn’t come!” This shows us that Goku has been training hard for 10 years, and has most likely made some major gains, although at this point, it is unknown just how strong he has become. Now for the introduction of Oob: Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P2.4-8 Context: Vegeta asks Goku why he’s entering the next Tenkaichi Budoukai Goku: “Because someone’s entering who seems incredible! I’ve had my eye on him for awhile, and he came to the tournament grounds this morning.” Vegeta: “What!? …I don’t feel any ki that strong…” Goku: “He’s completely suppressing his ki now. ..But somehow I can tell…that he’s definitely strong…” Vegeta: “…Hmph, are you joking? There’s no way a guy like that could exist…Don’t tell me he’s an alien!?” Goku: “Nope, he’s an Earthling.” Bulma: “Huh!? That’s impossible.” Goku states that Oob has an extreme hidden power, and that his ki is incredible. Goku has never sensed his full power yet, but since he knows that Oob is the reincarnation of Kid Buu, he knows he is strong. At the this point, I am thinking Oob ~ Kid Buu because they are one in the same. Now on the the battle: Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P11.6-8 Goku: “He’s the one…While I’ve been training on my own, I’ve been waiting all this time for that kid to enter the tournament…[ ]…10 years ago, when that outrageously bad Majin Boo died, I made a wish…That this time, he be reborn as a good guy, so we could fight one-on-one…Apparently old man Enma Daio heard me, and pulled some strings on my behalf…” So once again, Goku confirms that he has been training extremely hard in preparation of this battle. This still shows that Oob ~ Kid Buu. Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P6.4-5 Context: as Goku and Oob are about to fight Piccolo: “This will be the most notable fight this time around…” Dende: “Huh?” Goku (to Oob): “Don’t be so tense. You won’t be able to put forth your true ability.” Both Piccolo and Goku can sense Oob's hidden power, just like they were able to sense Gohan's as a child. This leads me to believe that they can tell that Uub ~ Kid Buu. Later on, I will prove why this is false. After the battle has begun, both Krillin and Gohan are astounded by Oob's power. Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P10.6 Context: as Goku and Oob fight Kuririn: “Yo-you’re kidding…!?” Gohan: “Wh-what is that kid…!?” Spoiler: click to toggle As you can see in this first scan, Goku is surprised by Oob's power, but he is still able to defend himself, and evade his attacks. Goku ~ Oob Spoiler: click to toggle Goku goes on the offensive on this scan, but Oob is still able to defend himself, and fight back. Goku ~ Oob ~ Kid Buu at this point. Because Goku is fighting Oob evenly in his base, it is fair to say that he is either ~ or ~< Kid Buu because of his training. Spoiler: click to toggle When Uub attacked here, Goku was shown to be sent flying and could not block the attack. At this point I see Oob ~ Kid Buu ~> Base Goku. If Goku fought at his maximum, I believe it would have been a perfectly even match. Now, after the battle is finished Goku says this: Goku: “Oh, I see. You still don’t even know how to fly, huh? …I guess there ain’t no helping it. You haven’t had no teacher, and you probably never even considered things like that. Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected. But you don’t know how to use your power. This is the first time you’ve fought like this, right? I've got it! From now on I'll live with you at your house and teach you!” Goku tells Oob that he is extremely powerful, but he must learn to use it. This leads me to believe that Oob matches Kid Buu in physical strength, but since he does not have true ki control yet, he is still below Kid Buu. To finish off, Goku says: Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P13.2 Goku: “From now on, if anything should happen, you’ll be the one to defend the peace!” This shows that he thinks of Oob in a category ~ to himself. In conclusion; Kid Buu is ~> Oob because Oob has not had proper training before. Oob is ~ Base Goku as shown during the scans. |
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| Animelover5487 | Jan 14 2013, 01:03 AM Post #3 |
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Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P6.5 Goku: “…But someone besides us and Boo might win.” Satan: “Hahhahhah, now really! There’s no way that could happen, right?" This shows us that Goku thinks that he'll lose to Oob. Spoiler: click to toggle Goku nearly breaks his arm blocking Oob's kick. Spoiler: click to toggle Oob was able to push Goku back and force him into the air just by screaming. That's why I heavily believe Enraged Oob > Base Goku.[/spoiler] Edited by Animelover5487, Jan 14 2013, 01:07 AM.
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| + Kyouks | Jan 14 2013, 01:07 AM Post #4 |
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^Animelover, I can re-host those scans for you and post them, if you wish. They aren't showing up.
Edited by Kyouks, Jan 14 2013, 01:08 AM.
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| Animelover5487 | Jan 14 2013, 01:09 AM Post #5 |
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Ok sure. |
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| + Kyouks | Jan 14 2013, 01:13 AM Post #6 |
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| SSJ | Jan 14 2013, 03:31 AM Post #7 |
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Goku does say "might" when talking about Oob here. Remember Goku has never sensed Oobs true power before, but he does know that he has an immense hidden power. Goku most likely is basing his power level off of Kid Buu's who is stronger than Oob. Now to counter: Goku: “Oh, I see. You still don’t even know how to fly, huh? …I guess there ain’t no helping it. You haven’t had no teacher, and you probably never even considered things like that. Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected. But you don’t know how to use your power. This is the first time you’ve fought like this, right? I've got it! From now on I'll live with you at your house and teach you!” Goku says that Oob is amazing, but that he doesn't know how to use his power. To me this shows that Oob is > Goku in physical strength, but he still doesn't know how to fight. Remember he can't even fly yet, and has no control over his ki. Also, Goku wants to teach Oob how to fight, which means that Goku should be at least ~ Oob. |
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| Animelover5487 | Jan 14 2013, 11:03 PM Post #8 |
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It could be plausible that Oob got enraged at his last tournament leading him to draw out some of his hidden power than go back to 6 or 7 or whatever his base power level was like how Gohan's power level went from 1,307 all the way down to 1. Chapter: 203 (DBZ 8), P4.1, P8.3, P9.4 Context: Gohan gets extremely mad as Raditz torments Goku, powering up, but this power goes away quickly Raditz: “Ba…ba…battle power 1,307?! [ ] N... now his battle power is only 1. It... it completely changes with his em... emotions…[ ] Only a child?! You’re joking! The brat has a higher battle power than you! I’ll kill him now, while he still doesn’t know how to use it properly…!” That might have been what Goku felt before. About the "might" what we've seen in that fight from Goku and Oob backs up Goku's statement. Piccolo also can feel it judging by this statement. Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P6.4-5 Context: as Goku and Oob are about to fight Piccolo: “This will be the most notable fight this time around…” Dende: “Huh?” Goku (to Oob): “Don’t be so tense. You won’t be able to put forth your true ability.” So you agree with me that Oob > Goku? I thought we was talking about who's stronger in power level now ki control. |
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| SSJ | Jan 15 2013, 02:17 AM Post #9 |
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Well I would like to provide a theory about Oobs hidden power. I think that Oob is buil like Majin Buu. When Buu would get angry, his power level always stayed powered up. There was no evidence of his power level going down. I think Oob is the same, in the way that when he gets mad, his hidden power is released for good. So I think it is completely different from Gohan. Gohan is a saiyan, and his rage boosts are only temporary as you proved. As for the Piccolo quote, piccolo says " This will be the most notable fight this time around". This means that he knows Goku is in the same ballpark as Oob. If Piccolo can tell what Oobs power is, I'm sure he can tell what Gokus power is as well. He says it will be notable because they both have the same power. Goku ~ Oob. |
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| Animelover5487 | Jan 15 2013, 09:31 PM Post #10 |
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Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P12.2-5 Context: Oob is surprised by Goku’s Bukujutsu Goku: “Oh, I see. You still don’t even know how to fly, huh? …I guess there ain’t no helping it. You haven’t had no teacher, and you probably never even considered things like that. Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected. But you don’t know how to use your power.This is the first time you’ve fought like this, right? I've got it! From now on I'll live with you at your house and teach you!” This means that Oob's enraged bursts aren't permanent if they were than he would have control over it like Boo had thus meaning that Goku's statement made no sense. So he is the same as Gohan where his power level drops after his enraged bursts the training was so that he could harness his powers. Piccolo says that because their close in power level that dosen't mean they HAVE to be equal and already explained in my other posts why Oob had the slight edge over Goku. |
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| SSJ | Jan 15 2013, 09:52 PM Post #11 |
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When Goku says he doesn't know how to use his power, that means that Oob doesn't know how to control it. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have it. I believe that Goku is speaking more to ki control with that statement anyways, because Oob does not understand how to use it. So during this battle, Goku ~ Oob. And if we're going to use scans to decide this debate then I will voice my opinion. You said that Oob nearly broke Gokus arm, which I disagree with. The look on his face has more to do with the shock that he received from it. Also they fight dead evenly, matching punch for punch and kick for kick. Oob catches Goku off guard by screaming and powering up. You can make the argument that this brief power up just took Goku by surprise. I for one do not believe it means Oob > Goku. Edited by SSJ, Jan 15 2013, 10:03 PM.
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| Animelover5487 | Jan 15 2013, 10:50 PM Post #12 |
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Ki control? What do you mean by Oob dosen't know how to control his ki? If your talking abou flying than it's been shown several times in the manga that knowing how to fly has nothing to do with actual power. Such as. http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/gain_1.php?did=0-0-28&fpp=10&fid=105.jpg Goten sparing evenly with Gohan despite not knowng how to fly. Everytime Boo became enragd he showed no problems controlling his ki so if Oob's enraged bursts are permanent than why would Oob be any different? That stlll dosen't disprove Oob breaking Goku's arm with one kick. Oob caught Goku off guard? They were in the middle of a fight how is that off guard? Edited by Animelover5487, Jan 15 2013, 10:51 PM.
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| + Kyouks | Jan 15 2013, 11:23 PM Post #13 |
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This is the 3rd day of the debate. I'm going to have this closed at around evening (US Central Time). Belt out your last points and counters while you can. ~ Kyouks |
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| SSJ | Jan 16 2013, 02:46 AM Post #14 |
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Okay here is my final point and counter of the debate. You say that every time Boo became enraged he could control his ki. That is completely different from Oob. Boo was born as a monster who already had ki control. This is shown by him flying, and shooting basic ki blasts. Oob was just an ordinary human, who was thought to be strong in his village. He would have no reason at all to understand ki. |
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| + Kyouks | Jan 16 2013, 03:31 AM Post #15 |
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Thank god only one of the TL;DRs falls under the "MEGA TL;DR" category... ...Well, this looks like it's just about over then. I'll get this topic closed by a mod, good job to both of you, great debate. We'll be talking about the winner and we'll announce it when the first round is over. Good job again. |
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